Dec 1973

1 ¦>!* iKii t * - 1 f A December ,1973 CONTENTS EDITOR'S COLUMN LETTERS FROM DELHI WITH LOVE .. by Feroza Paymaster THE RELIGION OF THE GOOD LlpE i- SHIAVAX'S SHOCK THERAPY by P. B. Warden ARE YOU REGISTERED TO VOTE 7 A WHIFF OF INCENSE by Manjula Padmanabhan HOT BAIRUS AND CAN Nib ’*^0**^*^* by Qeata Dodtof it » Page No. 11 14 22 24 27 W>'. 2 6 & * J ' 30 PARSIANA COVER dapietlng Zbroastar and Ahriman by Manjula Padmanabhan Mr » 3 .1 1 ! I ih k If AHTigaiti-.f* * ¦t t 'a ‘7/ « * 4^4 y- It 'iMiii^r~t i ' ¦ ’ '-jrr'''-'** 5? ¦’sO >, - ^S^e^en \(^<» 892, ‘G.P.Oo Bombay, 400 001. (Parsiana' calendars are on - J^le at Ha. 3/t at Faredoon and BHwjor, Karatii JBooksellars,'K. ' tidrrfanji ai^ Sons and Reza- *ha.) y,x»*wx ’^r. ’ R JC. - Boman-Bchr .be*- . ;;a n^^Oter or-fot^zhfe follpvi^ cbfoe^ the'late^ refuse*- ‘ ’ ‘ ^’ iid-erview with Parsiand. ' '’^had ai^bacfiied him through his we can ’tttake sjde^ "Joumalistib secretary as he wMs*^t'home con- ’< ' ¦ / t be ^^^ve afti reji^ G^^Whiefi seorethry as he wMs^t 'home con- —1— r--^ an abdominal secretary after hp^dy loves us. speaking, to him conveyed the efhie»MBB^ all ^at require us to . f^escing^^ from be ^^tfi^e ana truthful. As a operation; His r<9^^>hicfi . ‘ •* So.^e,t»f out y^l^ate ‘l^itorsl ' message ‘that he coi^, nay to collect material oh the farsiS for a course on ’Zoroastriaiiism.' During his first week he found tfie^ eommu- “exactly as I expected it to I to wonder, "thought it is a i- westernized community, t, is a very hospitable com- igeting vfexe reported, contw-;^*mupfty, st- very generous commu- SF^OBld that it kfiew very little of its *‘faim, but J felt it was one asmmu- Aftar being in Bom^y , : I underestimated the gpttfer- ous nature of tfip community, the and SO - on, I think it is even* more Tcind- r ' i ¦< flSIJOY PRESTIGE SAFETY CX)NVENIEMCE ¦ '.-ti ¦? / BECt^M^ A BER 3 ¦< t J DiNmS <9Ll^ "ilMOIA BrtheCTB klMtTB0 Inoia BrtbAreJ-iMtre**; .yi Dady IfOUa*, fi - -¦ 50 Vir Ijarlmin* Ro«d. t •*'' ji. , ¦ • ¦ r J Cable: l3tlill^l.U8 4’ - A b > -i0'i f 3,pose their bodies at the Towers , .column would he complete empire .for 300 years) grew^ the of Silence. Frankl y it had seemed without mention of the K. R. Cama best grapes and brewed the finest horrible. But when I went round — Oriehfal Institutfe. . Porsicma fans wines. "Jbe Persian plateau^s ----------------o-.- — ¦ mission —I was deeply moved by history of oUr stormy relation- excellent for growing grapes. The wine made from grapes grown in Shiraz was called Shirazi wine. The Arabs were very fond of Shirazi wine and introduced the Persian grape growers intojSpain. grapes grew in abundance and the ‘Arabs named the place ‘Xeres ’, Arabic for Shiraz. The altitude and the soil of Jerez and Shiraz are The Spaniards mis- how ’morbid an English grave- the unwarranted comments made pronounced it^ Jerez and even? ’ ’1 in comparison. The against the Institute in the Octo- tually the British mispronounced fimost jungle-like appearance of ber issue of the Parsiana. The all these into sherry wine, the (Doongerwadi) land; the fact Cama Oriental Institute was estab- “Spain ’s claim to the word sherry that there Me peacocks as well lished ‘for e^ouraging ^holars to dubious and historically in- correct because it was all started by the Parsis in ancient Persia and not the Spaniards. Further, the claim-sounds like the Spanish kettle calling the British pot black. ” And lastly even though nobody loves us, Dinshaw Irani of Empire the Panchayat gave me per- (the. few) will recall the sad mission —I was deeply moved by history of ouf stormy relation- it, and I began to understand why ship/ The institute a^^ . for a people want to preserve it. I complimentary subscrqition, we don ’t want to ' comment on strid wC need the money, they re- whether they should be preserved, plied ho deal, then a good Samari- ¦V I conyjlimentary subscription, tan gave them a gift subscription. lb one area of Spain the Shirazi We wrote and sent a magazine. The magazine was returned with the following letter:. “We are in ber 13. We also note with regret similar. the unwarranted comments made pronounced it Jerez and even? ! in ¦ . Everything seemed general and Iranian studies in so ^peaceful, quiet tod natural, particular and for offering facili- that I confess that if I was a ties by way of accommodation, Parsi I would want to hang on to etc., to the existing societies and with which he (Mr. K. R. Cama) was connected.* /‘The Institute is thus a re- search institute housing a Library Stores did voice concern about my and about the number of vultures, I did not do a count of the vul ­ tures, and I did not go inside to see how many bodies there were. It was not until I walked around receipt of your letter of Novem- Doongerwadi that it struck me how morbid an English grave- ¦ yard is in comparison. The against the Institute in the Octo- almost jungle-like appearance of ber issue of the Parsiana. The the (Doongerwadi) land; the fact Cama Oriental Institute was estab- a<; vultures —i saw a squirrel run- prosecute Oriental studies ning across. E „ „ so peaceful, quiet tod natural, particular and for offering facili- that I confess that if I was a ties by way of accommodation, it if I could, i also went to the irtstitutions with which he Hindu cremation grounds and that really shattered me completely. It was horrible after the Parsi Towers of Silence. I felt pl^si- .- - , ... cally sick having been to the ghats, on Zoroastrianism physical condition. After seeing Whether Zoroaster himself prac- tUs form Pt ot -start tn-Jereai^ ! as we inte^iew^ one, everybody but ii^ Shiraa, ‘Persia. feels we are ttdHiig sides or have stated that the P^sos or the sacrificed our integrity for mone ­ tary ^rin. — Xhiall^ Mndalwood A^^etries, gun benzQin Oman) and other Perfumes , • ’V 1- r-J t "If 3 K ,, A -vnr* V. veai nis Diasea ana inaccurate uunk- Is youth by saying t^ey are not • That this is so can he nrnv£>d b VikSoIi (ot mb? LitS" does ® systematic re/utdl, supported T JZ tha^th ’ot d^s Syof bis state- . ments. ______ ___ ___ _ ___ “My grievance was that these their daily bread and make two bodies should have been kept pn the _ ___ _ _ ___ ! j _ . J .1 1 ¦* •. 1 J- at the break pf dawn to return late immediately, ” he complains. If this at night, ’ •• • -........... What is most dangerous is the fact that if an individual builds an _ Aderah, and allows an otit-caste then do they still gather iii droves* youth of today sets out to go all the way to Karjat and Virar to earn endjS meet. They leave their homes outside pavis and not dumped inside were so, the epidemic Vakil fears would have raged years ago, as the vultures would not have been able to reach ’ the bodies easily. Why te enter it, according to Vakil," no- , bd(|y .can prevent him from doing on the grounds? .This brings us to ’the question ...—4 controversy has succeeded in exciting in ’ the public mind: Is there indeed a scarcity of vultures? * Earlier, in the press. Vakil had Now admits that from October fFpture Shock ’ Your last issue of Parsiana tiaxf so* According to him the number suitablv be called “Sbiavava«a ’ of^^gfeiies could be reduced to,^; “ frO the 44 being maintained at “ ' . , ¦ t. Zoroastrians ^ill take pride in pro- • -- —- .r . --------- -- yiding funds to those Aderans, ^mltures. Which are featted to be in dai^er '’'f ' - t- for f^ lack of funds. 'Vakil n^ ' to Vlay 15, ‘there are enough birds rb. Waiio about it. I^rthodondrs - ------------ — ------- '* JK KhiSed G.»iri^d^ Ipve commented In rtli, J’t Suitably be called “Shiavaxana ’ for obvious reasons. Peruez phirozshaw the ?inoment- * Religious minded j I Shiavax Vakil states that there zp-e some mooidis in which vultures ^e not to be 'seeA at the Towers of Silence, whe^pas the coifimitthp Mlence, wher< djipprising —I have no doubt on that issue. ” what he actually believes. As far the san^e issue, that on tfielj^f^isK they found at Ibast 100 to 120 vul- tiires. If the scarcity may arise in ^iture, (at the mcwnent, the argu ­ th, thi^ get many m^»6 times in thi^q^esti^ is^concerned^there _____________ __ . gardifig the 10 daiys ’ Jfeliefcfarf Cere- 18 days, let me say J.L J.T- rri i&rjBMMiM. Howcan a true believs^ of ^^^e catf, howcvcr ieaiTied aunng neavy aownpours. ^ss than the cure, »ther^OTe the Tomorrow sotfteone ^hen it cleared up, on one occa- fereedmg of vultures * must fee en- pe. lomorrow, someone . . . p . . . . ¦ douraged without, aity delay. ''If die head t^asses^r pushed the tell you that this is not the only to the, bone by the birds. This evi- i have sugg®t^ fpr the per day, ’they would* live literally at bodies are certainly not dumped abouMhis, I h2tve ‘serious doubts. a starvation level. ” Any knowledge* immedi^ely into the central ^ell j Regardittg iiieusedf &eDqohgeF- > ^le man on the premises would ‘ {bhandoo'}, an^ that bodies are eaten j^adi land Ve^jexplahis, “A bhrid tell you that this is not the only to the bone by the birds, /^is evi- i have sugg®t^ fpr the source of their food. After a cer- dence is supported by ornithologists simple reason that the , Imids ate tain time in the morning, they fly who claim that vultures devour the hiarked for a cemetery? Noiv as away and return only late in the co^se to the bone within a short regards a crematorium, naturally afternoon. This indicates that they span ^f time. We hear from the jjjg Parsis are highly emotional , as fly elsewhere in search of food. nassesatdrs tU^ this ^process takes ^they consider fire sacred. So it . ¦ corpse to the bone within a short Regards nassesatdrs that this ,process takes ^hey rn ns idftr fire sacred. ’ , ’ ®^ture J^ould be impossible to establish a person can consider the statemeiits ^crematorium, I haye been agninst of Ek. Golwalia and ti^e nasses^s, > }t frankly. ”^ It is difficult to.imagine together with that orbyiithologist^ Ihow an .educated man like Vakil as opposed to Vakil ’s assertions, and | could advocate burial. Today, even decide for himself where .the truth j western epuntries find this^systefti lies. ¦ 4 very expensive. The Strongest ----- ---- o —j’ About the T/zondZi/oy and nas- respected as a leading cardiologist sesdlars Vakil ' states, '“We treat jla^ tWuch could bp^ore profitably of Bombay, who had been to the tjjgjn asJ haHjans, untouchables. ‘ utilised 'for housing, industrial or Soon after Vakil made public his than an hour, views, the remaining six trustees ; of the Panchayat made a statement ' ‘ in the press, completely dissociating themselves from his allegations. If what he had stated was factual, ; they would have stood by him. Dr. Golwalia, a man of high'integrity, . Ht frankly, ” It is difficult todmagiiw !i _ J»_ '.t_ J_ _ i;»_- X7-1-3| jcouid adVoteite burial. Today, even 4 very expensive. The Strongest Towers with Mr. Vakil, says that there is no truth hi Mr. Vakil ’s claims. , . . The khandfuas and the na^seinteirs socially. Peihaps a s miciip^pic also firmly assert that there* a^ segin^t of tM commuhity -ri^ re ­ large numbers ’of vulture^*' tfiat act io them in this Sway, ’but'i^eni ..... 4,... ‘‘................. ' " - They ddinot gc^toidtanctions^hHis jagriciflUral purposes, to to be re- 11- —iserved for cemeteries. To resort to is preposterous' Parsees in g«le- i v i ostracised- L^m pJurial is to turn the-clock back- . • 'r*Tr»*.z4t' If we use ^iej.?ppongerwadi land ral have never i wards. - L 5for burial, ifter> certain time it will 'i'- t ¦ J A ¦ ' i A. t 7^ fi ''itr L si*- i ( ern s*.- ‘f: ;, -.’ll '¦ '>!' : ff; Boinbay; tip filler 7 HQf^ ca cbqrbsi r nough ? ¦A rNmrwrtiihWf r THE tfnfi^-MODERN I GAS COOKING J RANGEi, 1 GRKLS?WSTS. eOOKI - ANO BAKES SIMOlTINEOUStY r NEAttGMI>^ i^li^ ANO . I STREAMUNbi^IWi^ ENAMELtED ANtf^AtlAOU IN FGUR PLEASING ddlOtlRS? THE itSitlAii M (NdlA. 6iVES?fHE UtTRA-MOKilN JO YOUR KITCHEN. '5 i 1 ¦ ¦ ; f ^OMMV^IEStlOS PVT. LTD. ? • *T 4* naturally be exhausted, and then the comnjunity will have to pay a fan- taStic price for land elsewhere. The opinions down the throats of the Towers have no such limitations. Parsees.- However muph he may More than two lakh bodies have deny “attaekiif^-the system ”, it is been consigned to the Bombay obvious that he is only attempting "Towers over the past 302 years, to convince the tindeclded that he ? * * * # But now it seems that Vakil con ­ siders it more important to ram his They jpan be used indefinitely, and is advocating other methods of dis- ' posal because of p^sent-day cir ­ cumstances. When told that pre- curable to the Doongerwadi sys­ tem, Vakil does not like it. It is now apparent that Vakil has will be. Commenting on the paucity , of priests, Vakil advises, “Give sent-day conditions are not unfav- them adequate remuneration, pro ­ vide educational facilities for their children. If priests are well pro- _ ____ . ........ . . .. ........ vidM, the second and third gene- |jggjj against dokhmenashini even ration will continue to be priests. ” before he was elected a trustee. Why has Vakil not mentioned a Here it is significant to add that as word about the ‘Scheme for the garly as in 1970, he had asked the Amelioration of the Priestly Glass ’ trustees to consider “an alternative which was drawn up as far back as mode for the disposal of the dead ”. 1965, under the auspices of the of course he did not disclose this Parsee Panchayat? Dasturji Hor- in his election meetings, at one of mazdiar Mirza, Dasturji Kai- which he loudly declared that ours khushroo JamaspAsa and Dr. Mino- was the best system, preferable to cher Karkhanawalla studied the cremation, burial or consignment problems of the priests and formu- to the sea. He announced that he lated just such a scheme as Vakil wholeheartedly believed in it. This calls for. I:_ - musji donated one lakh of rupees towards it, and Jehangirji Cama, Rs. 50,000. 7.“ about,this? ........... - ready provided, and more forth- proclaniations about the dokhmas. TRS CLEANING POWDER WITH SYNTHETIG DETERGENT Ideal for cleaning Crockery. Glassware. Utensils, Floorings. Bathrooms & Closets. Cannister Packing . w, approx. 1.6 kg. Packets of 1.5 kg. Gunny Bags 50 kg. TAS WHITE PERFUMED CLEANER For use in Baths & Toilets & Floorings as a Deodorant Bottles 750 ml. Plastic Jury Cans approx. 5/6 litres (RETURNABLE BASIS , CAHSJ ? Drums of 18/25 litres. TAS PERFUMED liquid SOAP For Washing Hands (Quantities same as for perfup^d cleaner.) TAS uouib DETERGENT^ For use in Factories. CanteeniEt Hospitals for Washing Laboratory Ware & Glassware (puentities same as for perfumed cleaner.) Free home delivery for orders over Rs. 10 end tor regular customers. Contact: Sorab J. Madap. Flat 14. Kartar Bhuvan, Off Arthur Bunder Rd.. Colaba. B9mb^r400 Ops' Tel:2l3B4S Grams: nature about ,this? In J fact, Naimbhoy Hot- lecture has been tape-recorded. mu jcnangirji v^aiiia, The majority of those who had What has V^iLdone '^oted for him from the ‘E’ register With the funds al- betrayed by Kis contradictory <5 Coming, he could have accelerated alone ’,'thdy felt that this the slow imple^tation of the portended further irses^oesiW, acts setoe, in the ^fteen montiis he . o»iwB part, whic% wtmld breed djs- , soision' and bitterness withiji the community, and would mislead the uriinform^. tibh of the Idck of confidence in him? ’ * H. Variawa ar imple^tation of the portended turther irse^pOAwCUe, acts the ^fteen montiis he . part, whteli would breed Jis- in o&e. Of course, he could not lia«e done so, if„ as he says, it is his personal view, that the function Of Mnety mettihers^of the ‘E’ regis- the trustees » “to manage the trusts ter forwarded an individually signed and nothing more. ” Should ’ we petition to the trustees, asking that then, to benefit by his advice in at Vakil resign. Such an Occurrence is least this one instance, substitute perhaps the first in the history of the present . board of trustees by the Parsee Panchayat. Does not a band of 'Mehtajis'l ’ Vakil feel it to be aj indica- Vak^ would do well to remember the jh^me^t of his professimial colleague, Justice Daver, who had ruled mat the trustees ^ould be the leaders of community. Oto ’'* Stu^ng the histoiy of the . Parsee Panchayat, we come across remaik- . able instances rnastr iati prefers to follow the have been donated decades ago and paragraphs 15-20 says the sea never Zoroastrian religion, ¦ die Parsis i don ’t think have ever bbea washed; gets riman. It is only on the shores cannot take any steps against nOr Devout Parsis who attend the cere ’ that pollution takes place. One- object to it. They can only deny monies are made to sit on third of the world is earth and him the benefits of trusts that were projections of the wall covered by two-thirds the sea. It will not be created for Parsis. flimsy satranji ’s which are in worse polluted. t condition than the ones the priests Phtrojshah S. Bmwandiwala In Karachi, the vultures were shot down by the* military. It is a trait of the vultures that if you kill one vulture, other vultures do not come to the spot for three plight of Mehtaji ’s premises at months. In Calcutta, vultures Doongerwadi where particulars of were scared aw^iy by bombs thrown all the bodies that arrive at C_ by the rioters and , they did not Towers of Silence are recorded, appear for a month. Of course, The structure, which is i Karachi, Bhaynagar, ( Madras and Bombay have a intervals and the flooring also natural advantage: a sea shore —an seems to be washed at that time ideal opportunity for 'jaldeK. only; ¦f r, Phirojshah S. Bhiwandiwala Mehtaji ’s Premises Mehtaji ’s premises occupy a 4ot. I wish to draw attention to the ?' space but the usable caipe tarea IS mmimal. If ?ome chantable Qj Zoroastrian contractor breaks this place and rebuilds it, he will have recorded tbe satisfaction of his own funeral made of recorded in a more aesthetic L WULdVf xno^ WUXvU Id luauw VX AM«r««•/%:««-mAvt 4* Ktt Kie Calcutta, stone, is white-washed after long environment by hi? descendants. Instant Banking, Service Worldwide Pheroz Bookbinder AMERICAN EXPRESS INTERNATIONAL BANKING CORPORATION , Oriental Bldg., 364 Dr. D. N. Road, P.O. Box 507, Bombay. Hemiiton House, Connaught Place, New Delhi. % 21 OldX^ourt House St , P.O. Box 2311, Calcutta. 4^ H e»iAoul6694 * i 9* .... J ‘-.J •* 4* GAZDAlt pftxr ate LTD. JEWEI3 Taj Mahal Hotel Bohlbay "AppQinted Valuers of Jewelfery The Government of India Wc arc buyera of yow* old Jewellery, Diamonds, Emeralds, Rubies, Pearls, etc. and pay the Highest Prices Code; "MANUSCRIPT" Telephofi^ No. 255577 10 ObiecBi» . To-day ’s generation of Parsis . knovFS pretty little about our Parsi . religion, our old histoty, the mean- ing of our various ceremonies or rules laid down in the Gathas, the meaning of our prayers, etp. on these different topics, but few are inclined to search or spend fbt them. Your magazine could thus fill a great need of informing the • younger generation and all those who cannot read Gujarati, 'about our? Zoroastrian History, Culture, Literature, etc. Only one thing should be borne in mind —^the writing must be objective, not coloured by orthodoxy or the other extreme of liberalism. I am sure many Parsis would then like to subscribe —both those in India as also those abroad. Ms Tehmi P. Sidhwa according tp the system of nasbit^. P|tel further states that eminent scholars seem to agree ^ith tills viey#, . . Jhe which contains , this mode of disposal, was definitely __ * krirtVc written before the Persians came cou^ into'contact with the M Mak- ing sweeping g^eralizations, ^ as Patel does, do^ Yipfi tijelp us to , arrive aX the truth. ‘ Of ‘Vaepay* B. R. Pavri You have induced me to subscribe^ to Parsiana in the hope that yoif will give us something wholesome and knowledgeable to read-^sotne- thing beautiful that can enlighten your readers of “that far-off pur ­ pose l‘ ‘ , creation moves.* 'My friends and I are college going teenagers.. - We don ’t think you should poke such stupid mean fun at bur. Prophet. Why do you suggest he could have cursed someone to be a homo ­ sexual? How can he utter such s an abuse? Please don ’t be ljurtfiX| in • trying to ' be sophisticated. We ’re a pretty mod crowd but we don ’t dig your kind of faff. . Cowcis D. Kavarana ’74 Calendar _____ _ CorigratulatSons on yout memor- ^vFne, to which the whole able calendaf.,Tbe Parsee stalwarts vicacivu muvco. That, I feel is the who bui)t Bombay an<|,M wht^ divine need and inquiry of the eminehoe the reflection of »the moment. Numerical facts and ^rlee Community gp^ in- th| controversies may be left to statist!- image pf the cosmopplit^ Crowd cians and academicians. ____________ have how beeii enshrined for our youth to whom they would I close with apologies for the. be an ideal and who we pray above suggestions and an earnest imbibe their greatness. request not to let perverse and sordid subjects creep into healthy Pali M. Vania homes through Parsiana. Ms A. N. Bharucha facts I have received the Parsiaw . 1974 Calendar and I liked it very was that quite a nuriiber of the njuch. Th^ only fault il coydd find Before or After? was that quite a huihber of the There is a crying need for urgent ; were too fnint and ^had reforms as set out in Noshir Vajif- would dar ’s eminently sensible letter in ’ ’* your November issae^^arsiana can play a very important part in imple-, menting much needed reforms and it is to be hoped that emphasis will continue to be put on this aspect in future issues. Counterpoint Mahyar PateV'comes to the con ­ clusion that in ancient Persil the Persians never expose the corpses ha^ locked bettet. Prof. P^ D. Sunavida Pride fills me to See the pic ­ tures of the past famous (Parsi) personalities on each page of the Dina Nay ar calendar. Had a small paragraph on each one ’s lifeihistory Veen included, it would have carried . more value. - However, this ven- ; ture is appreciable and wbrtlMvl^^ S. J. Ccntraetor-it* FROMbfiLHI FeFOZ9 Paymaster 4 X' > f! “The majority of Parsis here are their class-mates »belong fd? connected with private business other cbmmuiiities and si&Ceed in __ ____ __________ * ¦ assimilathig with themi My Wh N^KolwallCPre^dent rf___________ agers, and a small per cent work son', for exaihpfe, knows more Tarsi An)uihah.* There are ap- with the Government. Some have non-Parsis than Parsis. There ate proximately ’ 750 to 1,000 Parsi. their own business. There ,are quite anurftber of young Parsis^W families in the Capital most of more middle-aged Parsjs in Delhi Delhi. An appreciable number of ’ whom are “weU-$ettfed and have than-any others. Next come the teenagers and quite a number in good jobs or* business. young, and finally the older peo- the 20-25 years age group. Some “We have iostitutions such-as ple- Parsis are well-known in of them hre worlyng, others afe ; the^e^ SSaSTS Delhi. I dorft think they miss at college They’tak^qtute ah Social^^Ster Sh Shizes Bombay. There are too many active interest in the "Xnjumans debates dramas and chUdren ’s shortages there. It ’s good enough activities. FOr e^rpple, with the furictions. ” ^areolwaUa notes^ to, go to Bombay for a holiday and return of Dr. Juhglewaila after a ForS? there ai old meet everyone, but you always lapse of 10 years, religiousTeetses wh? 1^ ^rniASh want to come back. . have been started agairii ’ qdife Indenendence the land was trans- “Parsis here mix freely with mem- a number of you^ boys girls ferred to the Delhi Anjuman. bers of other communities. When attend them_and ask itt^hgent This transfer took place, partly ’ because the Aramgarh was there, * and also through the good offices , of Cooverji Bh^ha and Burjor . Sidhwa who were then working j ¦with the Government. On this I land was built first the Dharam- ‘ sd/u then the hall .(Bhivandiwalla 1 Hall) and finally the Agiary. It is 1 a very valuable piece of land, right j in the heart of Delhi. Before the j Agiary was constructed, there was no place of community worship, and it was a badly felt need. . “Today, tremendous use is be ­ ing made ^of» it. .. j To begin ,with, we had two prists. * Then *< " c c 13 ! iS' i5<. A\V‘ Vi" .'t- ' ’', 1# I ylll\ .ft • THE RELIG ' - / '-I ’' ¦' . ¦ • ''• Parsiana : Who was Zeiroaster/ ' HijpjteLts: There. is little or no strictly historical evidence regarding hinr. ‘ The Gathas are exposed *by one person. They are the out ­ pourings of a very personal nature. I do not accept for one moment the arguments of some scholar^ that they are fictitious. Some people say that the Gathas are fictitious and that they are composed by the later Zoroastrian comi Zoroaster hever lived, lhat _ ______ ____ ____ I find utterly hnplausabie. The 'Gathas I think, linguistically, are the work- of one person. Th^ are the ottt- anmfty, L This ¦4 pourings of one soul. They are very person^ in * s^le and. if you dis- ‘ believe in the existence of Zoroaster t then I think you ’ve got to posit somebody who wrote the Gathas, . and the name of the person who wrote the Gathas is • Zoroasifer, so you ’ve only got to. end positing t^ Prophet, or his existence, any ­ way. Beyond the evidence of the hymns,' I don ’t think we have got » much-reliable evidence. There are later traditions about him, some of them are I think, probably reliable ‘ . because' they ale mot the s6j^*‘of ‘ ’legiehtT riisit 'people invent. For , example he was^ said to ’have been murdo^d at an altar by. invading hordes. I don ’t find anything im- .. plausable in that, you can ’t prove that it happened, but I don ’t see • Why it - shouldn ’t happen. There are the struggles of his early life, trying to convert ’ people to the . faith. Some of the Gathas' almost have a note of despair, almost, but hot quite. This is not the sort of thing that later people attribute to the founder of their religion. He comes out of the Gafhas to me as a man totally committed to his . God. Absolutely convinced of his The life pf Zoroaster is shrouded in ambiguity. His date of' personal experience his personal ’ • ’ ’ ’ , . . . . — - - vision^of God, that God was some ­ body who was a real forcing power to ‘him and he wanted to communi-.* cate his living experience to others'. L Afid yet he struggles to do this. He struggles to get his message over to Man. He has to fight and at times he almost gives up and he, feels despair, and he feels des ­ pondent and he turns to! God and pleads for help. ’ He' /s a yery ‘ real, emotional per&n. I can ’t construct ¦S V li ,{ L\ X 'i ’ \ 'i Q- '^2 ! W >' «; '’fr* K » birth, his jnaritai status, his physical appwrance are all subjects of debate. Aside from the Gathas, which record Zoroaster’’s monologues with God, all other literature on the Prophet is ofa di^i^ or disputed origin and time. It is only as archaeolo-. gists uhet^th new evidence from the ruins of ancient Iran that we cun h^^ to get a clearer picture of Zoroaster and his times. John pUjufells lectures on Zoroastrianism in fhe^^ Department (tf Comp^a^vt Rdigion at the D^er of ManctieZZ ' England.'^ the fdlpwing interview^j^ies tdthrow light questionsthatpuzzieaMaivide Zoro'^^ns todSIy. 14^ w can to get a dearer picture of Zoroaster and his tirnes. restd" in on s^le and. if you dis- 5 existence of Zoroaster them are I. think, probably reliable beS^Se* they -ale not the s6j^*‘ of example hewas^said to ’have been e- i i* t * » .M-;. t A ‘ « ¦ ¦¦ ¦ TSt G O OB LIFE ¦ ? . . by FatiMi 1^ep»rter 5 4» i' “•rpyW«ii->g his life. But I think four hundred years earlier thin I just doesn ’t sound true^ to me foj - 4(Mki get quite a feeling of the pet- really am because of this very old one instant. I don ’t believe and TVFU gvV UUXIV a X^VAlUg V/X vxiv. XXZMXXJ MXXX ------ -- “ ,» , : sonali^ (rf the Prophet from the dialect. And of coqrse it ’s possible I dOnt respect either of those ex- Cath». T don ’t think we really that the Prophet could have been treme theories. It is a purely .* -n^ to go much beyond that, the- living in 6,000 -B.C.- They have imaginative interpretation and tr^s- fa^ that he is a live person, preserved a dialect which we would lation of the text and I don t think • awumil/ AM UIC XXA/piXVL XJ.VAAA x xxav* xz*. -------- ----- -- -- ------------------------ - X , Gathas. P don ’t think we really that the Prophet could have been treme theories. ne^ to go much beyond that, the- living in 6,000 -B.C.- TTiey have imaginative interpretation and tr^s- fa^ that he is, a live person, preserved a dialect which we would lation of the text and I don t think packed with emotion. With feeling, . date at a 1,000 .and there is it should be taken seriously. rM his conviction of the presence no way of proving or ^proving _ What are the basic jf God, that is more than anyone that with the*present evidence. Parsiana . What are the hasic ! tfCio ask for, really, of any prophet, p^r ^jana; Would you say,he musf > , ’ Withhis conviction bf his ownper- Hinnells : Undoubtedly. There is ,sonal e^erience and ’ relationship FfiNNpLLSt My own hunch, and nothing in the hymns to suggest witib God. ‘ There was for Zoroaster, I Want io stfess hunch, because I anything like, an erop^. The, social a Cod with whom! fie had intense don ’t think you ’ can prove ut coq - structure which is “envisaged in the personal communication, wbo filled clusiv^y, -is about 1,000 B. C., give hymns fe* of a rural xphimunity, of Zoroaster with a conviction that . 4 Azv ______ n“Ti_ _ ___—z4-t /-» vSazx'nlet .. zvf a x-l—v....... ixXkm writers date hijh ^out 6,000 B. C., peopfo herding cattle and" so on. lafo and I don ’t think are reliable, ^as mnmeo witn cniiarenr r------.------------------ r There are a nun^er of iniddle-Per- ’ , ’ either to nght or to wrong. sian l?anian»texts Avhich date him TIi|«nells : Y^^ the names of the He was fed up of people sitting on . ... . .¦>. ~ . . .. motioned, and one of the fence. ¦ His God was somebody ____ _ ...... ........... ............... ........ , is usiiaJly interpreted who filled him with a teifific drive centu^ b^Ore Christ, ^hese and as a marriage hymn for his daughter, and passion for righteousness and certain other Syrian, Chfistian and Yes, 1 think he believed in marriage fie would go around and he would Armenian sources all place him m .and practised it. say ‘It is no good sitting on the fte same period, but they,re_plljo , 5,^, .^estem writes X^Wme eiSJ him or against him, and you can ’t pe in between. ’ There is , the vi^t path, there is the wrong path arid w^fi his conviction of the presence no way^of proving or Parsi Xna: teachings ef Zoroaster? Hinnells : You ’ye ^ot to start, 1 think, with his oonce]^ of God, with his conviction of his own per- Minnplls : My own hunch, and nothing in the hymns to suggest witib G^^T There was for Zoroaster, I want io stfess hunch, because I anything like, an erop^. The, social a Cod with whom! he had intense don ’t think yt)« ’ can prove ut coj>- structure which is “envisaged in the personal communication, who filled or tai^ ’a d^ -f^rs. T^^ a'nomadic pastoral people, >of a there was the true, the righteotts writers date him about 6,000 B. G, T^pb herding cattle and so on. path of good thoughts, good words The Greek .traditions ’J think are late and I don ’t think are tellable. There ^e a hunger of middle-Per- From most recent have come Irom a * ^ral back- **& *^**vv*w. • pan* MX 5WW UXXWV&^XXVk?) J * A^zi /iz, X7Z,,, +i,;».v\a and good deeds, and he was deter- mined to make Man commit him- i»ATRSlANA: was married, with children? 2^ y«iM i|efb^eJ^lexand^r and this chddren are would place Zoroaster iri ^e si^^ the Gathas "f* ' Armenian sources all place him m and practised it. the same period, but they are Parsiana : Some Western wjitt^s distrust the ca^d Zoroaster dw^h doctor evidence. The^a^n for and other unflattering riamra. What •>mft abo^ a^^ljOOO B.C. iS-that “the them to say tW»y dialect m wjuch thfy are composed , , . pom*, mv.,, v..,. “*'• dates fr but I douM if tlwre h& area. Parsiana : What Imi^age must have been spoken in his area? Avesta? Hinnells : what they called their langi call the language of the , Gathic, but simply, because it is Li _ _ “ ¦ ' , ¦ Indp-Biropean language - f^ly, 1 from which Latin also domes, Sanskrit also comes apd Greek personal? rdationshfp with God. been, at sopae ^me, way Mck ih i He was, ho.t a philosopher?* He was Anqient history, a family ci tribes . • a man of ^d, not a man of books which we loosely' call the Indo- • * and l|e (jidn ’t sit down arid work Europeans, which scattered “ttirough relationship with , God. I don ’t think even then Jewish prophets have this intense, passionate, - per ­ sonal, intimate relationship with God. Zoroaster thought of himself as a man and God was forever God. Zoroaster never presented himself as a God-man and yet he felt that he was very close to God: Although J the Jewish prophets thought them- J selves close to God, I don ’t think .-- . . any westerrv cbmmentators h^’e language. It is a variant of 'toe really ffone justice to the intend . . Indc-&iropean l^guage - fondly, personal relationship between Zoro- from which Latin also Comes, aster and his God, which I think , • Sanskrit also c^es apd Greek is closer than amy of the Jewish aster wp^ sc^ caught up in his own comes as well. There, Aust have, prophets thought. But that also is i---- —t-'-j t. . .j.*.. k.-i. j.. a very subjective judgement. Parsiana : Now when Zoroaster , ox. axxvx ,,xxx.,xx says there is good aim evil, did he out logically, this concept of evil, ‘ into India and throughout Europe, envision / one god who was good. Later philosophical people try to do and toe language spoken by toe and one god who was evil? that, and when they did that, that Prophet i§ one off-tooot of this HiNimLLSi I don ’t think that for is how I think they arrived at the femifo^of larigua^s. Bqt. vifhat he Zoroaster anybody or anything helief in two opposing gods. -iBut would W his dwnl|ngifog«, I dpiCt could compare with toe Lord that that really is only an academic Kno^ Perhaps he di^^’have a . he experienced iri a tdsion, K he h^ch, Ij: is impo^iBte to prove or narrie for it himself. ? believed there was an evil spirit in disprove that it W p later di^elop- Parsiana 'JIow old is the Avestan exisunce, that ertl^. could ^’to VToS® never compare With God —God.WjW unor to the nronnet. . . .. . the source of all, the Creator W light and of darkness, of misfortune and fortune, the source of eveiy- thing. He was the Beginning and f he usea in thOf Gathas. ^^dj, ! don ’t term. People mean different things '¦ ” ‘ / 4 . •- -i— _ cribed in those terms.' Ahuraj^s gods of equal power ,existing from yet that All wM something you has ever existed ” in any religion, you? had to struggle' with*,.^ Qo^ is''ultimately more powerfiff. ... ’ '• . . destroy all that wps go^. * Parsiana : How did dualism come into the religion in the later s^ges? Hinnblls question I would deserve not a professorial chair, but a complete -------- —r-- • city! There are two possible ex- Zoroaster was bom? planations. One-is that'toe idea HiNNELt-S;, I halve no reason to between the name Iraui and Persia? of a good god and mi evil devil •*— • ' " - was 1 of Zotoaster. Some scholars have call the language of the that, and when they did that, that Prophet i§ one off-shoot of this ' ' " Of larigua^s. But \!((hat he for is how I think they arrived at the family inp belief in two opposing gods. ;But would call Ws Own'l|rigwe ________ ____ _ ___ _______________ , acadeinic 'fcno^ P^haps he di^^ he experienced in a vision. K he h^ch, IJ: is impos^Bte tO prove or narrie for it himself. J l^ior td the prophet. Par ^IAI^^ And 1q^^ you think dfi^ism c^tmwJ' as a hS^ief ^ J « '¦¦ » •:. ref js j jitat :noW;'i "¦' “ among l^oastrians? 1 4wo opposing forces of Good and r • ; powerfiS, then I would say it exists in many religious communities to H I could answer that this day. Parsiana : IS existence, that evil spirit cpuld trient, not somed^g that existed - r ------- - \ ’ : : . wlor to the prophet. ? ? dariiu^e or both? the source of all, the Creates a i. i arid fortune, the source of eveiy^ tnmK t^jsm c^tinW riS a dc^f r§^^ thing. He was the Beginning and among Zotoastnans? , > A^a iWf^ proW^ Wl^ n^ • . the End. These are all phrases that Hinnell$: Dualism is an ambiguous 7^^ he use^ in the^ Gathas. And, I don ’t term. People mean different things ^nst. JUstas me itfiests now think ariy evU spirit could be des- by it. The idea that there are two - cribed in those terms. Ahura/^s gods of equal power existing from ™^i evidence as Parsis who hre^roastrians? ' ' r- KiitoBU4 :< Yesf diere are i Zm-oas- , trians iffi Ban*s4 -TheW are' seine Zoroastrians in London^ f^^^are some Zoroastrians in TlondOn' who are born jn London, who tlpnk of _ _ _ ___ ____ themselves as English, who have Were "^ey I,. That ’s a loaded ques- % z*-.- vxxxxv VZ.X,, v/x xwxx^x,u lii sense that, in Bam d5)ictrthe'1^o71it? *Most he leave and^o somewhere else and western scholars believe that relief start converting, people to ^roas- depicts the God Mitra. If that is, t^a^sna Pr dM4ie Wrt Bn't there are Irani not the Prophet, then-we don ’t re- was the reception o- lx i_ __x y-x yi ,r __.y wUeute'Started? to what )ie looked like.* We haye In .^e 5East there are iatec. Editions, ,se^,,of wh&h Somt Parsis who believethatcon- aren^7all that>^;(m^iM^Uaiy about ' '^eiaon has never been a part of ' ¦ * ' ’ . \ the Zbrqastriaql^H^ I cannot per- sonally, from the ,outside, ima^ne ¦ that anyone with the burning pas- ' ® sion and conviction of the Prophet s^emenc could have kept his faith to him- the community could have ^bwri Kinnells : It is very difficult to unless he set out ta concert pec®le give* a de^ite ap&w^r because When to ‘his faith. He. was,so full of pas- you digs hip a Skeleton, it doesn ’t sion, I do not see how he could have have^a label ondt saying from which kept it to himself. tribe it came. Not semetic, not , mortgloidr they were, generally Parsiana : Do you think he met • with much resistance? Kinnells : The Gathas reflect a lot of opposition. There are prayers asking God, ‘Where cap j turn to for help? Where cmi I turn, to for aid? ’ Ncites^ as I said, almost of de^gl^r, and yet though the hynm SWts bff in dfespair it^ry quk^;^ , turns'into an , affirmation Mlm, \ ffiat C|od*wilHee him thrpu^ But ¦ latec. Editions, his phy^cal a^^a^ca. *. Parsiana r But people in that 9lstrict/'^%ow they have ¦' tall or , spori, f. dark or ggjj j ggg qj. understand how «giH?F ’ • the community could have grown It is very difficult to unless h® set out to concert pec®le a go fliloqiid and he WQmd siiy Vtt is no good ^^tting 4^ tli^ lence. Yon L. V to comndi yoiffsd{ to God^ jon are eiflier for lihm , t or agatost him, and yon I ean^t be in * » 1 I M’IT 4'' A Is there any \ 9-^ « obvKjislji there We moments when and that symbolism to ijl rc^tms.d^^ havfe? Prophet i^rwent what the least thb mediev^s^^. * » ^Ma^T^cffic WPaJ Christians woullsL-o^l the dark ni^t „ ¦ * ; * xt i of the Soul-dfeefore he saw the B^isiAm; Did Zoroaster believe I^ells : Jt s*difl8pult io put it vision c« God. He despaired untU in ah after-life? down to one specific thin?: his faith in God mye him conviction Hinnells : distinguishing' feature 1 to carry on. That despair cannot sav that h be explained without opposition and f . „ _ _____ _ fea^for ihe very life texts. My'Jowri tyansi ’^Ion*^?those texts would not fit in with the idea IX) you think Zoroaster »¦ ---------- YeS^ Some people .TJat despair cannot say that he believed 2_ opposition and reincarnation. That depends' on ¦ ^be Gathas the translation of two particular . ^AZMl/*!! AVn-rtAOr'' 4.1..... ________ IIX- w r - and safety of the Prophet. Parsiana wore a stidra and kustil Is theire any kglieved in inArf—-u.. stress that it is a symbol of the I in^lW|g«ane|lt by honour'of God, that it is the sword belt of the faith. There are very involved texts explainihg the sym ­ bols —and particularly of the kusti. -S’'' tehly respect seems to tude to life and tte, way Vo Tiv^ life. . \ . '¦ _ __ The distinguishing ' feature between Zofo^trianism apd Christianity is the importance of individual res- ponsibility.That youareMtimately responsible for your ' bwn aet jpmi . You are judged just by yourself in Zoroastrianism, whereas in Chris- in a heaven and a teirandflS S is tK4 Sadiour.JFor a je- “ .T “ Zoroastnan It is not* pdssSWe that one man can die to .save all and there is this great eraphhsis on f tKivaV 41,0* Md. • ..4. responsibility of every-man in Si ”2 rids life and in this worid, to carve ouh ms own ultimate destiny- bother feature Which I think dis­ tinguishes Zoroastrianism is the terrific 4-e^ct for this life. There is a gfeat stress On the" importance of the spiritual life, but there is also fhb great respect and stress Off the development of the material life as Well. This is God ’s worid ---------- T dt, J- 1 and mah has a moral and a*reli- personal belief Hi^elLs . . In the medieval texts resnonsibilitv tn makdi th<»* ___ it is not fnr pH fimA Tr, 4.1,0,. J^°nsiDii^ to make the ------- ; so that being a • monk, being an gscetic, being celi- resurrect!^ of the ijead. But ^re pity, Hinduisih ant I^ant-ilslam t ¦ / V XS'.'; j ' Al J r'Oliiik M Wpped any tfae Acb^emenian ’* King^i^ the s^is of Persqp<^s and saM * Exbise me sir, are you a . Zwoastrian? ’ he wouldn ’t quite have known what you meant 1 thoughts, good words, good deeds. It is something that, yon live out in your daily life and which you are responsible for. . They are not generally aware Of the medieval developments or. doctrines. They are not aware of the history of their faith. But they know what is- ex ­ pected of them in their daily life, yes. Parsiana : If a Zoroastrian or a I , Parsiana : You spoke of a purify- Parsi knew nothing of his religion, ik Is it, in the sense that if aside from what he had been ¦ .would have put something in brought up with, where Should he ¦ the fixe, it would destroy and start to learn, what is the essential ¦' purify it? / thing that he should know? That is hot what he. 'Hinotlls : purifying the individual at the Par 'siana : ___ ____ _____ l^at all men will be get this from? : I have to confess that Hinnells : _ _____ ___ _ spedks of. He speaks of the fire TYqphet. The teachings of the med ’s experience of God led hiiri Sovercigu Judgement. \uai au men wui oe gci mis ir S’*®- Zoroaster Hinnells ; x uw uumcas ^^i hteratore is concerned more with Man ’s’ own f '^n ’t think there is a decent book rnH nrp meaft that religious relationship with-God than^ in Endish on the Teachine of the ShereS fo?z!.roasrtr to ’o™ e? so that is' Prophet written by western KhGlare ¦ ;:Se ‘S’M'’hta\7stS I on t-ks written Man ’s free will ana Man ’s resnon- e„m. ‘’?^n “ in England we sibflity to choose between ri^tTnd pS?^'^^’^^ Zoroa§txiamsm or don ’t hear of the books written by wrong, between good and evil The tt P^rsis much, and one of my pur ­ idea of free will and of Man carv- Hinnells : I i^as originally a New • coming here is to know \ ing but his own future has been a Testament specialist and manypeo-^* ™t, is v^ttep by the Parsi com- major aspect of, forbastrian his- Pl® said that there was Zoroastrian From the Western point tory. There have been some schools on the New f^tament, of view the best book written of Zoroastrian^thought which have nobody had ever written a believed that man s future is pre ­ determined, but by and large this has never entered the main stream of orthodox Zoroastrian thought. And where would he HINMELLS: -__________- . - _ Testament specialist and many pe<>^ writteii by the Parsi PAh^B^A: Is fire mentioned by the going to do research, I , . to do*rMearch bn this. ‘But jfjMueutiy.j He puys wheri started st|^yi^ ^ - reverence to it^ fo yjv pjm triani^ I got bo intete^sted of much fierce -religious de^j^r _____ I on. the teaching of the, Prophet is 4p ______ ____ oviAVAito German, and it is in very diflBcUlt of Zoroastrianism in the Old Testa- German and I wish somebody would ihent and there were odd short fy^nslate it. Books written ip Eng- studies on Zoroaster in the New teaching of the. Prophet ;-r Ml t^e ideaj)f the Av^ta, the his- for an explanation of some of the trianism I got bo inter^ted ‘ in"it Htuals, one book stands out better Wound to the othw and that is a book which is in French. Dr. JamaspAsa is translating if into English, and it Do you find fthat most* should be available soon. It is well Vir*-) ?•A 1 4.^^ .A. . < « * _ , _ ------------ ; wnt- What has struck bo<^ about it. There were studies ihent and there were odd short translate it. Books written m Eng- , Testament, so wh6n I decideSl waS 14on ’t think are very go^. I thSt Pfoi^et 4ie Satiias? HiNNEtL^: :f^uentiy^ He pays . • reverence to it.' It is. the focaf of much fierce -religious. neVj ^y ; He spraks also of the Fire of Judge ­ ment and the purging fire is obvi- gious belief. Parsiana : ped fire? Hinnell^: G^. ’ Parsiana ; . of God? HiNtUELES : If he had eVer used the word symbol. I would imagine he "**^'*". Would have considered it ^rhaps But for Vtery i^ffMiy, Zoroastrianism was a dead letter, and although flierS was _______ ____ a lot < i^secnOon, and a l^rt focal point of his religious practice of Wooded, ffiahy people did but it is nqt the focal point of his- convert to Islam h^abse it religious beUef; Was a livhlg was g^ng 7" •y*"' ^Y*-*^* <-"v r^Yvoia, MIC HIO- " t thei# “ the Zoroastrian church, and Joroas- ih it to do 'research bn this, , wheri started ! that I-aewr got New TfeJrtamenti I Zbroastriah studies: S Paksiana : r niAlIC TvaHa-F V* • ------------ -------- -»—» »* T V«.X*M,U»±V OWlle XL li Parsis are aware of their religion? translated and the best book x. ’j; You think he worship- Hinnells : What has struck me^ ^®®. a Eyropean in print at the about most Par^, the lay peojde, moment about J^oroastrianism. No! He worshipped that thfy say their faito is-a very , simple one, not pne involving com- , A , - , , pulsory attendance at . temples, or ' And fire was a symbol necessary rites for the ordinary ' person. |t is the religion of good. the point at which he quite natur ­ ally expressed his religious devo ­ tion ta God through fire. It is the just stayed in Duchesne Guillemm,i Parsiana : After Zoroaster died, Ther^ what happened to his religion? Did Christi^ty 4ha| ifte best it continue to flourish? fCTtilfaerfXorM Christ : is the blood of it ’s Kinnells : jt must have done, vuui.<^*k j otherwise it wouldn ’t be alive today, hishniw. But we have no texts, no archaeo ­ logical records, which help us to establish the history of the religion Parsiana with confidence until about the third century after Christ. Gradu ­ ally, bit by bit, from archaeology and studies of texts, scholars are putting together a jig-saw picture of the facts. But there are many pieces of the jig-saw missing, and of course when you ’ve got pieces of the jig-saw missing, you can always put some of the other pieces in the wrong place. But I do think That we are constructing gradually a picture of the history of the Zoroastrian faith. The picture emerges of the teaching of the Pro- rant. I don ’t think that he believed phet gradually moving from ram- HiNNEL^There is ittle evidence, he believed munity to conmuni^, gewng but I think it is hlgh^improbable. ,here were many gods. I think known more m the West, which I thiiA if you just s^Jiped any of he in Babylon was the centre of the Iranian em- the Achaemenian Kings on the . , . pirn, and from Iran spreading to stteets et Persepolis and said ?uity re pay rSpeTand^S-' Other nations and gradually becom- Excuse me sir, are you a Zoroas- tinn tn Madnik. When he was in mg so popular, that by the third cen- trian? he wouldn ’t quite have tury after Christ, it became form- 'known what you meant. Zoroas- ally established as the state church trianism as an ‘ism ’ I don ’t think of Iran. The old picture was that really ;;0|^ed until the Sassanian Who had been the ruler at that time? Hinnells : Ardeshir and Shapur. Parsiana : HinnElls : i In which reign is this? _______ _ This was the Sassanian Empire when it became the official state church. There was a high priest by the name of Kartir who was obviously a great dipl<^at as well as a priest, and he managed to get the establishment of the church as the State religion. Parsiana ; Would you say Cyrus the Great was a Zoroastrian? _ ___ _____ : • There is little evidence; getting but I think it is highly improbable. r- WcHiJd you s^y Cyrus . : Was th^ n^ name f <»• the rel^^ Cyrus Wieved^n?; i: I dohY khow. Some was a much more gradual process. What happened in the third cen ­ tury was the formal state recogni ­ tion of the nation-wide popularity of the Prophet ’s teachings. Parsiana : What was the religion of Iran if it wasn ’t Zoroastrianism? - . What , would Cyrus have believed Qxistea. ticm to Madruk. When he was in Iran I guess he felt it was his religious duty to pay Veneration to the gods of Iran. the Zoroastrian faith was preserved period. What I think was happen- Parsiana : only by a few in one small part oif ing is that the religion of Iran was 1* Iran and then suddenly in the third gradually being mo^fied.and modi-, HltWELLS. x _ ____ century after Christ those people fied, as the teachings of the Pi;^^>het people's^ they were K^dayas- came to power and implanted it as gained' power. So the principles niahS, believers in the worship of the formal orthodox church of the which the Prophet thught catoe to Mazda. Mazda is a god who exist- whole country. My own belief is influence the religion even of the ed before the time of the Prophet, that the archaeological finds that King. But whether he would have- Yes, I think Mazdju was venerated come to light show this to be a then said he was a follower of the before Zoroaster. Very few pro ­ wrong interpretation and that it Prophet, I doubt. phets introduced any new gods. What they did was to refonrfor to give new fife to the refi^pn -which '. And I,ws is the ’2 way in which tihe ’ Prophet worked. So probably Cytus and the others Kinnells : .He would have believed worshipped Maz^. In the Gathas, in the . religion, I think, of the Ms»^ meaps wise or wisdom and Aryan people. M&ed to quite na A^ura is the Lord,* the Lord of extents with the reli^oii of -the wjsdom> or the Wise Lotd, It Babylonians. When he took over never occurs as one word, it occurs Babylon,; he didn ’t present himself as two separate words and they as the conqueror of Babylon but as don ’t always go side by side. In the iti^ and nature Tfking as fact it ’s striking how rarely they do crdwneci by the Babylonian God — c^cide. They are usually wart. Madruk —and in this I think he He »pr^s to the Lord; he;jprays to was influenced by the culture whi.qh Wisdo^. 1. he ruled.' I think fie was very toie ‘ that the words lesce. Chi the ins^ Parsi who that tenific tiiireaC is 20 It is in the later texts lura Mazda coa ­ lesce. On the tns^>tions of Darius and Xerxes you have Ahura Mazda. ' In'the medieval texts the two be ­ come one, Hormazd. Parsiana : After the third or fourthW Ws f*®***! Do you feel that what ’ ^ntrfofcofty ij BombU^ 1* ^ppdned tO-the ZotoashThn. reli- ppencar 'j. have-existed. But you can ’t explain gion then, with the spread of Islam, Hinnells ; I can ’t help feeling that the success of Islam in Iran just is happening to Zoroastrianism in what happened to Zoroastrianism hy persecution, because some times Bombay today? in that period is just what is hap- persecution is a healthy thing for pening to the Church of England a religion. After all I think one of now. , Two things happened to it — the things that made Christianity so I don ’t think they were necessarily successful is the vicious persecution related —there Was a very intellec- it suffered from. Because it redly tual movement with a lot of philo- made people think about it, and sophical reflection on the nature of people came to t«peet ’lt for it ’s Zoroastrianism; and there was also martyrs and there is a saying in a very conservative tradition of re- Christianity that the beSf fertfliier membering the texts. One can ’t for the Christian church is the blood help but comnient ’how faithfully of Its bishops —I am not saying many of the ideas in the texts were that ’s why I gave over my Owri preserved. But a third thing hap- Christian minidryl But it reallv t4.“ ’~- pened to it anfi that was, what did well for Christianity in somfe d^rease in Richard Fry, in his book ‘The ways. I mean I would never desire S problems of Heritage of Persia ’, has called' the to be a martyr, I would hot'Sriidy Of the ‘decaying ritualism of the state the experience, hut you can ’t ex- the secular society, church ’. The King was the head pldri the succfeSs of Idam just by §tate is a much greater of the church. Allegiance to th6 persecution. Becarise if Zoroas^ King meant following certain reli- tipn. There is only ope^eater threat gious rites, whether you believed it ' than secularization and that is be- or not, you dial because it was < wm^ the state church. If the right thing and if you didn ’t, you k to declare that India were a traitor to the nation. Reli- ' aIBBI \ ^^roastrnn nation, gion became tied up with politics, i then I thii^ th^ yrauld be the ulti- it no longer mattered what was the I mate thr^tto the Zoroastrian com- right thing to believe. What mat- second greatest tered- was if you did the right f £flB threat, I thmk, is secularization md ceremonies —^thSt you could be- IS bappenirig in Bombay, to lieve anything, providing* you ad- many communities, not least the hered to the formal rituals of the Parsis. state. And I don ’t think there is ' Parsiana - any surer way to kill a religion than ______________ to tie it up with politics in the A.. identitv? state. T^is is one of the thhigs th^ ii^^ed to the Zgrcs^iari ] chujxA > the ^s^an penod. the tinae Islam'fcatae W^O^e see^ the spirit of the I>ophet had died , out in much of Ir'art. It lived - course in a few, and there Were of course very devout people who, _________ presumably, had a very live and | tbink tbat WOIlld be never have set forward l_ __ grim fathers of the Faith to India. But for Very many, Zoroastrianism was a dead letter, and although there was a* lot of persecution, and i ?hetiter you believed it did because it was 'f.iS - tV .'i V ..JR A I Hiw^LS : It is much more simple and it is much more dangerouSi. Persecution can make a religion flourish. Urbanization, seculariza ­ tion are more deadly cancers and one of my impressions is that the problems Christianity is facing in England, the Parsi community is facing in a much greater and more dangerous form in Bombay. Any Parsi who thinks that his faith is not facing a terrific threat, is just -T---¦ What do you feel lhe Parsis should do to keep ,th^ identity? wNNEiXs : I want to str<^ that I m3 Ubt come to teach the -Parsis. ^^°astrian scholars in the pa§t have come to teach the Paisis the true Faith. I have riot come to teajih, r have come to learri, and ! can only speak as an outsider, hope that Parsis come to know about their faith. I study Zoroas- trianism and the parsis because I have terrific respect for the Faith, a respect I j$rid difficult to put into ¦ words. I CQuld not study any reli- rnere was a* lot of persecution, and trianism had been a wOhWlrf 'If Mfesj Gaii4l|i were tot dedare that dibidd be a Zoroasi|idan flation, Uving ^th: otherwise they would tUe ulfi^te threat to tlw . L - -- - d as the^l- Zoro^trian h to India. , s I more I lih -;fU' • convert to Islam because it was u living faith. Because it was a dyna- mere wouiu nave oeen the nocitftets'" ozkiAUi fi > ’ mic faith, because there was con- of resistance arid Tdam WCh I find so wortl^y of respect, potion to it. mere was li^ to “. iJIS M Wtter tUs is thrqn* classeV in There was vitali^ to it,.and com- thS^iS^d in ‘SSwhether this is pared^ith the ritualism,of the state peorfe. People who had cSverted .^W^tion, how- it seemed to a lot juStbWeXord would “ ‘w f®®’ people like a breath of fresh air. back to Zoroastrianisth But there w sp But of cdurse there were others —to the sword disaDneared triXris riiuch in the fmth that demands whom Zoroastrianism was still a XTo^tto/Sm I W Parsis eome,^ living faith and if there hadn't been kept thim^n < oSThSfag ”'’^ « respect^ I I t: I ! fJ SHIAVAX’S SHOCK THERAPY » By Dr. P. B. Warden founder Editor of Parsiana MM' * ' r 4' Shtavi'Va^ ‘coS Itwo.uld be rq,rehensible prisoned in many a Parsi mind. To this dilemma justice : —. “In the prison of his . days Teach fhe free man how to of ammonia). It is a fatty sub- praise stance ,,saponified' and resembles Adeps i.b. fat and cera i.e. wax. It a conflict im- deodorise it. Early dumping cluses Lp----- ---TJ, —^V'AAWXi one oners poetic stench. Dumping bodies close c ‘" . : ¦-1 „„ forming a substance known __ Adepocire; (magjarate and oleiate stance saponified and resembles if he did not inspect, it, did not ^otesque distortion.^d generates know anything about it and pleaded Stench. clcs3 to- ignorance . as and whefi the^public gether causes chemical changes questioned him on his poi&olio. BeWeen the first and th© second slowed down thereafter. Rapfd .. . Money was was pr««ted to the Academy 5 “<* “ [ l±e the- chance of a life- f L frustration. Recently two crores of w..* V ~ "B < • ...VMVvd years dur charitable trusts have &by Mr. Vakil in speculative, invest- functioned only as importers of f®ar of an epidemic arising Mr. Jehangir Shroff ’s scheme donations and exporters of doles. dokhmas appears to be ill- Zorpastria^ Finance Corpora- the changing times we fzz d;c43tca —owvLxl, ligious, and political. to Shiavax we got it. His interyiew with Parsiaa^ those thriving on jdead ma tter c — November Bsue) encompasses a saprophytes 5hich live ”8 cannot X ?? U»p-u uS Wa living bodies. There are exceptions ^^tiative and Imagination. Snr L y (Terences, but those, saprophytes are of a can be taught but. different category. . sons can only grow into the a ide and try out Shiavax if he can „ . , , , Three Fs. Whei shah we put them take us anywhere. It is not neces- « is of least concern whether on that track 'f ¦' f saiy to agree z« toto but it is neces- J® two trustees who went i«siae\ The circumstanea.«t' ih whJni, sa^to agree toeome form of action. X<^S^“aJr oZen& ?“ - *^8. reS«»“tn12? ““\ “^™.3 tte sensibUities^f ® disinterested other four trustees who r- objectivity, a trajt most needed in scui when rhe two tnistppc A«tArAri i ------------------ — the commiiriSt^, -particulariy by If they Were reallv .sinrpro d^r concept of their trusteeship, trustees. On Dokhme>nasfdni he not Si^iity to stop^?hem then it as a status symbol IS clear in his mifld. “I have deS- and there from enteS fS “ot as a duty. There is con ­ cnbed what I saw, ”, he states but dokhma instead of later^SSpwSo a® .Personalities invariaWy still favour DoJtZime re^XmS ' Ther^, in the Pai^ ^kt IS realism par excellence, were not party to rhi-g in*Lan»^z^« Banphkyat and several other Farsi Mutilation and stench are natprai tour? IS. SvaS^ ^^tough. ««*. and seek shelteTn^Z ’^nSj^i ™ S®'’“ "aa informed What oBends us is the dumping of roar but rhe ™ “nnmugt^ that, if he cannot hofe in the pit _fefout JSf vSil ‘‘L”^.“'lt “S*S own volition gvrng them raposure to Khurshed- comct^ngw doctor gW; up the guiteeshiip but not on I'*” a trustee to ins^ t “ m“t£ would do two things, disinfect and 'under his jr' - . 22 to- * Ignorance . as and when the public as He would have Belied his trust. world wars we made* headway but slowed down thereafter. Ranid IF.A... no their pious resentment JkT _ • . ? z « * VUliCVl IJmIiIW ® rays) which a trustee • to as issue of Ddfihme nashini. That '‘t. is because he clearly dist ing uishesand the prohleiwi e®» «e d <*_ X rtl>*rftlr A_ftftft^ % With Compninents fronu- ¦jjjf ¦' ¦ SBAiPOORai Fort RGMB A¥-40(> OOl Tpt - 2S42O2 -<212S^ ¦A BT V •fc ' 4f« ’9 9-'- . ¦5 .,'^ nonnoaei kooo 11 laotiO ¦llnoa'o® AAixftMaA naAftOC'^f', AA{\(\AAani t u 0 A if. la I‘I r 5k V V 10 la — VA, V\ laao^oqiap' ¦w_ "*? “TBa^ I ftf ft A . ‘ *• , 1 ' S * \ \ i,v b 01 ivi [^'\ i A »' \ » < V fl I.”.. L- 1 ***.1 ft til B UDO 0 MS Sin pDDOOO toeooo jODOQE^u annano QQDPacj 23AtE YOU RECySTERED TO vote: i Interviews by Feroza Paymaster The elections for the _ Register, So-nu-Mandal, is sche ­ duled for the Parsi Panchayat office at 2Q9 Dadabhoy Naoroji Road on the 23rd Pebruary i914. Are you going to vote! Are you registered! If not why not! These are the, questiot^ we put ’ to our seven interviewees this month. Ask ffourself the question and if the answer is 'no* in both cases, don't feel too bad. Very little propaganda has been carried out by the concerned bodies to enlighten the community about the elections. Out of the seven interviewed, two were registered and five were riot. This is not a random sampl ­ ing and therefore what percent ­ age of the community is re- gistered cannot be determined. But from all indications it is apparent, that a very Ichge-majo ­ rity of Parsis are ignorant of their voting rights. ‘E' / j« I' TSBl® EB ! < ¦r ' r*’ 3 ki-i*.* t (9 I.-;:,. YOU! Sehra Singara, 68, Housewife * '^V ¦''*« Panchayat. They havh *n0 back* bone —not dignified. However, if I get a card and if I know the per ­ son who is standing, then M vote 7^ tnight. I ^mk the .Raders. Before whe^ fru^ees like dales come m the dufbratr i^it^/*^tiwasr “ ^s, Ijjead them, ” and I know t^ j>€r- standing, then M vote trustees? ’ 'As to whether she looks to the Panchayat for leadership, Ms Sin- gara says, “ We dp dect jthem as J 1 1 . ¦...,. ... ijee Jehangir' tSS «S w? ’ everybody°g^^^ £d. jpade feels that we should fake in- r^~— x — . I t ‘ ¦ ¦ ~ _______ I feels “we have elected them, soft f Tb^^ manage. Why go oh no Iw picking at them. The Panchayat as j^vftr/h] a bod ’’ "'¦ — —i-i—... someth in- room for them,- I real M»ert. —J .... : v«jte is ' i^dei^ dt ^Jh^ea^ ^How- - L.1 " i'. " ’— "x ¦hJte'fewS'tbat * fhShy do^U/good ’ witl| ^hir arrogance, ‘Bat ., . benefit;of ^e problem has extende^febnnidi Ae coihmunity._ Th^ - h.. ^uvu community. work? But I would fik^^eoide Panchayat There ^oidd W^^ _ . - ... . .. ... . outlook. terest Tn the Panchayat hut she leaders. Th< no If L “I really don ’t know anything SS^a Mrd^^?am ”told ^eis- St ®bihmunity. They v^ul^ ’t ;^^"^n ’t cope Withlfi ^‘^Sd ’ tered. I don ’t know. If I am, my &^c^ac^. Povei^ h^increas- father must have enrolled me. I ed ^ng the Parsis. OnlSie i^holfe have never voted for anybody, wS?X7 T trustees) are boirig Welt . ever. Tve never taken any interest with eumritinn improving tfie in these things: My fath^ died in Panchlvm^ l Prl^hn^H Jh^^anchayat 1940. Maybe he did tell me at that nS^ to-t^^sl^/ < time, I don ’t remember now. I anf outlnnY^^ C®6jd^0rs? To mafigh Jtttwir (tl^ so disgusted with fixe presen/^ S^^ia,^' rathet unfaij. T^ • iuuf lawyers out or ^seven working. * 24 / ' like to divulge everything to the ' comaiunity. ’”1'1 l.„.' from everybody, ; howx wrk»*V'7 T fit--. i r**: with gumption to come intO-fhe Panchayat. There shoidd be bt^- ' nes« people —they hpvb tK^ r<. With interfe^h»^'e , ed a ypOng hi .'I,O •4: 5 D-37/Accountant, National Centre, Ik 1 for the Performing / Arts, Bhabha Fellowship. Counc . E !• KS <6 s J * ’ b? for the rer^rrhlng. Arts, B habha Fellowship , Counci I ‘*No, I do not know when the The Panchayat does not pro- elections for the committee of WO vide leadership, says Pajnegar is going to be held. I have not . registered either. Can anybody to look forward to. No vote, or only members of the Pan- i ' — - chayat? I fe<^ that our community of people. is passing trough difficult times J * and I would like to vote. It ’s bet ­ ter if the younger generation community, and the funds. Trus- takes a lead and participates in the * > > < - ... activity of the Panchayat. This would help to get the best candi- dates. I’m completely in the dark The Panchayat does not pro- ......................- - "they don ’t inspire us. Nothing '» one to lead. They are just a bunch . I have a hazy idea of what they are supposed to do —look after the affairs of the tees should be appointed every year. Then there would be oppor ­ tunities for a more progressive out ­ look. There would be more com- '• at the moment as to how one keeps petition. With that efficiency would informed on the dates of the elec- also increase. Knowing that he is elected for ten years, the trustee is not bothered as he knows he is going to be there for that period. ” . -J? w tion. I suppose this information ¦' is in the Gujerati papers. I have never tried to find out. But I do r not read them. ” * Shirin Bahadurji, 17, Student, St. Xavier's College "I/don ’t really know whether I jto vote for some Udyog or some- woqld register and vote^ when Tm * thing —^which I wouldn ’t know 21. Depenc^ on what I feel then. But the modern generation doesn ’t know anything about the Pan- Panchayat “vaguely thrbngh m/ before —our parents; jto vote for some Udyog or some- ...1.2.1. T ' 1—_____ .y about. ” says she heard about the chayat; neither does the generation granny, but it didn ’t mean any- ‘ ; We have thing , to me. I suppose if* I nothing to do with it, only our got interested, I would get grandparents and people living in information about the elections the Parsi colonies, who have some through someone who reads Guje- V -i • *.1 1 n-tt .• ir ‘V J, ' . WM Panchayat does not exist for the younger generation. If someone ex ­ plained what they are doing —if we election dates aa^ the Pancha- know that what they are doing is yat, Hpw can F iook to them worthwhile, for the community, I for Readershij would register. ............. Shirin says, asking her to vote for _____ _ ___ _ _ ___ the Paach^t* ‘‘like tdling top thing concrete Fqr lea^rship. ” dealings with the Panchayat. The rati papers. I myself cannot. There should be some organised way of letting people know about the At . the moment/ for Readership .when I don ’t know anything about them. It ’s so vague. You have to look to some- ¦ y. ,'*1! r » . Ci " , * ___________________________________________________________________ ||k ^Bharucha, 65, retired “i know that the elections are ¦R . to be held somewhere at the end ___ ___ __ ___ of February. I am registered to chayat. ’*’ Regarding leadership he vote. Fifteen years ago I registered, r-™ “wi — x- xu. of my own accord, being interested leadership. They have not given in the welfare of the community, it in the last 20 years. Before that if something had been People who stand for elec- comii^ in the papers with thp pros tions should be able to spare imR and cons of the elections —what . time, energy and have some are the advantages to the commu- .background of administration and ; nity and myself —I might have re- an interest in the community and * *¦ gistered earlier. I will definitely not just seek pomp and show. I vo$e.,I think it is my duty to. don ’t know what their constitution says. 'What are they supposed to *‘I read Gujerati papers. I have do exactly? They are supposed to heard about the election dates but be the servants of the community, I am sorry there is no propaganda according to Shiavax Vakil, sup- being carried out. The pommunity posed to look after the welfare of has not been given any education the community. They don ’t seem to on the subject still. ” Bharucha be doing anything. ” :i4 y’ W feels ‘*feverybody should take inte ­ rest in the affairs of the Pan- says, “Who is going to give the it 25'r» ‘No,. I don ’t know the election («' ! r ( j date. Never tafeen pn interest in this. 1^0, one ’seems to approach us. ¦Ney^C registered to vote, since J never felt interested. We used to talk about it, but we never®felt like taking any action. Sittce you have approached me, I wjll be voting, ” Ms -Wadia g ’?•: t- ^'i. vU V. ¦f- I :S 1’ L^i 26 Prnrcess SciiMt ph>yat needs some young Wood. Jist ’to, you know, change. In this t this. 1^0* one ’seems to approach never felt interested. We us^ to talk about it, but we never®felt like taking any action. Siftc^ you voting, Ms -Wadia says shp leadership, Ms Wadia m at tT los^ does not see how she would,keep “What is there to say. I don ’t track oF the decdon dates “unless think there ’s any leaaershitt. Some 1 read It in the Gujerati papers. I . of the people do follow them. have no connections with the Pan- ’ ' ’ " ‘ ’ chayat, not my business. Tbe Pan- us. present modein time we need some ‘ new Me^, isAitR[]^*s nothing wrong wth^ having Olde? people, new ideas, isi^dlT^I^re ’s nothing wrong ^tft. having older people, but we Wso need ,the young. Why not give them a Oha^? ” As for 'the “PanSkayat giving “What is there to say. I don ’t . p— ------, may ­ be for Some religious purposes, J don ’t know. ” 99 ¦Hl I, . 1 Bhariicha, 26,, Computer Programmer, ACC r*4ions are to be held. I ani'^not re- I ,gistered to vote. If I am .eligible I for voting, I’ll definitely vote. It ’s t»: probably our shortcoming hat wc . don ’t know more about the Pnri- s “I don ’t know when the elec* should it be left just to the elders and eminent members of the com ­ munity; probably our shortcoming fhat we I-dont feel the Panchayat pror don ’t know more about tjie Pnri- vides leadership. I can* only hope chayat. I never bothered to find they re doing something fpt the out. The Panchavat seems to. be ££”’rounity, I, don ’t know what. ?>Sps A ,gistered to vote. If I am .eligible I probably our shortcoming.fhat we - '-(¦ .5 * X * i out. The Panchayat seems to be rp. * . l , ------ absolutely cut off from ffie average- • slipped up very Parsh Since I feel I don ’t have any b^uly regarding the land surround- I fUcce^-to them, I don ’t-find put., t j \ “I can ’t read Gujerati at» alf,' Mys Kerman, ‘T g< news of whafs going on from_people whoi lhe in F -the know. ” younger people should de&it^ step in ” and take an interest in the Fanchayat. “By no -means ing Dpongefwadi. I don ’t parti- thingstWy are doing. J think ^ey are i—. » . . '¦« - . He feels that “the distfi^ption of funds for^he poor- r^l-A ¦H . .J _ !-.<__1__ J- J 1. ¦¦^ • . « »» going on from people vyho Jfee in cularhl^pay attention to what other things th^y are doing. J think they are supposed to ensure equitable er sections of the community, but tihis is only my gn^ps, and I don ’t really know if they are doing it. ” IMargis Irani, Age not givQn, Hairstylist, Gulanar “I don ’t know about the elec- ’ . tions, I am not register)^ to .ypte. voted in my life; wpi^n ’t even know who to vote ’for. If’any- r ¦ ....: body approached me I would. I _ ______ « |r^ ^o'busy with my work, jdus I Nargis, “because >ey — don t have so many^Zoroastrian careful in giving b^loi clients, and so I;(fon ’f even hear ‘ ‘ ' by word of mouths I don ’t know if I’d vote stillj t^ause ’*! wouldn ’t who to vote for. Soi^body to guide me as to who is a J’ genuine person. If somebody does this thfen I would want to vote. I j, . read Gujerati ' papers very occa- sionally. ’T don ’t get ’any/bfit bor- , row them from my neighpouj. ’ Nargis feels that *‘the ’pliblic ^ould help and take part in the . o-' —e. xxxv They shojild give sug- PuScha^at should 'cone forward, gestiohs and ideas as to ho^ the - - - - - Panch^at can utilize mpney iffple profitably. For example, the Gov- h'< 99 emment should not charge taxes We should [ take an ac- TM* janchayat ire very Mai out details ^king for loans. on charitable money, pbj^ Peojto^ ^pt^ ^v6*pin|{ in it. ’^ C- ____ nanSt be .doing a good, |pb, says "e very caref^ in giving ont loans. They do senp lpeodqjjto jlad out details abqut ithe,n«3^tB a^ing for loans. They gaM^h^x^ loan for opening sh^^eroll business did well didn ’t j)ush(me for payment. You are pot harassed. I wouldn ’t know ifjthey ’re utilizing money adequate ­ ly or ’not. ‘*I,,4dii’t particularly feel the 15 uxw«*«xxj iCW tuc Parfotiayat provides leadership. Our commnnity is going down. The .-^7.---yvmxAV XV/lTYflud, and find where the needis. I know* we can count on them in the hour of need. ”’ •:' i * A WHIFF.OF INCENSE 'S When Pheroza Shroff went in L search of a g^allery to exhibit her I paintings she found “the Jehangir I was booked; The Taj said ‘You ’ll I have to wait a year, ’ and there I was just no place available in a I short time. ” That frustr?iting ex- | perienCe laid the foundation for I the Cymroza Art Gallery. “I felt 1 the one thing I had to do was start a galley of my own for . | artists who can ’t wait so long or ' pay that much money," recalled. So Pheroza set about transform- ’ ¦ ing an old godown in the farhily- i l building on Warden Road into a .1 gallery. “The place was a real ¦ mess, ” she said. The floor was un- , I tiled, the walls unpainted, there i J was no ventilation and only a nak- ' W ed bulb illuminated the room. fl Today a whiff of incense pervades -fl the brightly lit air-conditioned fl atmosphere of Cymroza and the works of many established and tOhbe-established artists adorn the fr0hly painted, primrose-yellow walls. “We don ’t accept an appli ­ cation moye than three months before a show and we don ’t work at all on a commission basis, ” notes Pheroza “Cymroza isn ’t a ’ profit-xnaking institution. ” The second anniversary «f the show, gallery was celebrated recently 7 with an exhibition of tlK gWtings 3^ may n^ be buyers, artists, and a host of cultural programs. As xme speaker not ­ ed, Bombay is indebted to the Shroff family for their contribution to Art. The name Cymroza, des ­ pite its farniliar ring, is a Shroff family hydrid: ‘ ’ Pheroza ’s brother ’s name, C^rus; ‘m ’ is from her mother, A/itha; ‘roz ’ from her father, Phiroze and ‘a ’ from the end of her own name. “It was my mother ’s idea, ” says r ......................................... - I was finishing my B.A.” U' >9 she 4^ I I k __ - ¦ f ¦ % 4 i -'¦R Pheroza mth one of her works with Lyons Ice-cream, helps yuh •t 3 itl art left right and centre. had little miniatures, which were i Wiiia,; all the visitors who visit bought for 600 rupees. ” , , i . T - _ J J t J. • _ _ J. TVILU dll tAiiiuivivjii ui uic may uml uc uuycia, and photographs of ^Vem yoifing Pneroza finds that “People have a artists, and u L___ _____ pipgrams. As one speaker not- In addition to true art exhibi- tions, there are exhit^ions (rf'" _ ___ ‘handicraft ’ iteihs, such 4® hand- the time they pay the price all embroidered sarees and ceramic at one go; sometimes they tell me, x.n oan ’t pay a Tump sum of 1,000 you concentrate rupees, ’ and arrange to pay it in < . „ _____ instalments. ” It is difficult to sellers) can medce a store.on them. ” ‘Cy' is from specify what is the most popular Her own preference, however, is form of art with the public; loy art rather than the “commercial “Anything goes, ” she notes. “They stuff ” and she tries to select shows like something they can identify which also have some artistic ap- - themselves with. ” She cites the P«al, adding “some of it is very , ___ case of a Turkish artist whose Em- good. ” ’ , Pheroza, “she worked on it while bassy recommended Cymroza for The aftists, Pheroza feels, are al- I was finishing my B.A.” Her his exhibition. ‘‘His work was ways interesting people, but “very mother runs The Miniland School very traditional and realistic —sort petty. Tliey ’ll run down other which is housed in the same build- of Tumeresque. I wasn ’t too sure artists and quarrel over littPB ing as the art gallery. And when it would sell but I had his show things. I mean, I’m really being mother and daughter are out of anyway. And he had a fabulous taught a lot of patience; some town Mr. Shroff, who was formerly sale. They were really buying his times I feel I’m a counsellor, ’* She I* lot of spending capacity. Most of ware. “People tell me, ‘Why don ’t 7 on that ’—^be ­ cause they know that they (the sellers) can medce a store .on them.' « 99 of Tumeresque. I wasn ’t too sure it would sell but I had his show things, f mean, I’m really being . _ .......... ' ' ’ S ' \ ‘ sale. They were really buying his times I feel I’m a counsellor, ’* She . 274 says, explaining that this is be ­ cause many of the young artists, often exhibiting for the first time, come to her with their problems argument —^financial or otherwise. When, for instance, they come from other cities and do not have the means to live in Bombay, Pheroza occa- sionally arranges to have them togethers, because they are not distinguishing features is that on some evenings the gallery doubles as an auditorium for varied cul ­ tural activities, from sitar recitals to readings of contemporary In ­ dian poetry. Indian musicians, however, Pheroza feels, “lead a harder life than artists, actually, ” because it is even more difficult to hire a place to be heard in than to exhibit art. “They ’re a lot like artists in a way —you have to flatter them a lot. ” However, even with Pheroza ’s mediating pre ­ sence, feelings sometimes run high, an example being an incident which took place at the National Centre for the Performing Arts. A show of short ‘art ’ films by neo ­ phyte directors had been arrang ­ ed by Pheroza: “Two rival ’direc- ___ ____ _______ _ ____ __ tors both turned up to watch'the birthday, when I got my first films and there was a fight right painting book and paint box. there at the auditorium. So I had The first word; I wrote was ‘Art ’.” to tell them that if they had some : between themselves ____ ______ , would they please settle it outside, having studied there for three You have to be very diplomatic. ” Parsees, says Pheroza, are “i too interested in the evening get- stay with her. One of Cymroza ’s brought up on that sort of music. But they do come for the exhibi ­ tions. ” An interest in art is some ­ thing she feels is shared by all communities alike. “I get very confused painting on my own sometimes, ” she says, re ­ ferring to the influence the work of the artists who come to Qym- roza has on her. “I ?'ui-v t really have a style of my own yet, ” she maintains, though she has _ ________ won prizes for her work thrice in disgusted with it alL I joined ” all a row. She prefers to paint in oils, ’ • • - ... “basically, landscapes, ” she says, “sort of roots in the earth, and soaring up towards the sky. Most ­ ly realistic stuff, ” sometimes in ­ spired by the photographs taken home as soor^as college was over Indian countryside. Pheroza has been painting since “my ninth The first word; I wrote was ‘Art ’.” She has been to art school at the Nutan ; 'Kala Mandir, ’ years. She fe^s -afjtacerned about not the standard of art in India, say ­ ing. “We have produced famous schools of art before but now we ’re just copying from the West. We still do have a lot of folk artists, but they ’re working on their own. I guess I’ll just have to start a school of art myself! ” Pheroza is a veteran of Cathedral School and Sophia College. “I didn ’t want to go to college at all but my parents said I should so I ‘I don ’t think I, 'went. ” There was no one she knew, or from her school and the first three months, she says, “I was so ‘ ¦ - 1 the societies I could —elocution, drama, poster painting, classical Indian dancing, folk dancing, tabla playing, the works. I was painting furiously, and I used to come ^ring frequent" trips^around the for the day. Then I won. first prize , in the drama competition and {Continued on page 32, col. 1) WRAPPING PAPERS AND BOARDS OF ALL KINDS MANUFACTURED by F. Pudumjee and Company Private Limited Registered Office: 60 Forbes Street Bombay 400023 » Telephone Number: 254607 j i 28.A ‘’S^> * HOT BAIRUS AND CANNED COMEDY —' .. > iPi......... Theatre latest ) * The Indian National somehow manages to combine the excitement of a circus wiffi the celluloid glitter of a Hollywood film in its proditotiohs. Certainly the INT’s Gujerati play Toru Maru Bakaliu directed by Burjor Patel and Tarak Mehta was no . exception. As the curtain went up there was frenetic action on the stage, accompanied by rollicking music and all the lights frantically blinking on and off. It was apparently meant to turn the audience on to the right frame of mind for another “sex comedy ’" but was in fact oddly reminiscent of a circus with its roll of drums, its clowns and even a ring master to announce the entertainment for the evening. Perhaps the duly atti ­ tude to take towards a “commer ­ cial ” play such as this one, is to go to it as though it were a circus, where the entertainment is limited, but satisfying within these limits. The play fes all the ingredients that people may be counted upon to laugh at: nusfaken identities, a fat man, people falling off stools, people getting stuck in lifts, peo ­ ple dressing up in other people ’s clothes, people getting drunk and so on. As a piece de resistance to add an extra dash of local flavour to the jflot, they had a man from Maneckshaw (Ruby Patel) has been E .1- I f 1 V % 4- - t Exploding the situation to the jttot, they had a man from Manifekshaw (Ruby Patel) has been sive ball of a man, with an ingrati- Ahmedabad bringing with him all booked in this room by her boss ating smile and hair neatly parted - - - -- -___ 2. 2. " ' ................ dabadis and their parsimonious Mehta) who, being a considerate mixed together in Broadway sauce, adapted from a play called, Let Sleeping Wives Lie, proved a Ahmedabad to confirm Ms Nicholson. B, C. ji being the hea^ enough dish to keep the Maneckshaw and her colleague kindly sold that he is, spares-no audience sufficiently happy for al- Bobby Nicholson (Cyrus Bharucha) effort iff graphically describing most three hours. in their jobs, but before h^ can to Jimmu how he should spend That it did so, was hardly a re- do so, he insists on meeting * his anniversary night, while Ms flection on the originality of the their respective better halves. Maneckshaw, running in and out authors, who did not take the ' This creates a problem as Of the bathroom clutching a towel, slightest risk of deyiati^ from the Ms Nicholson (Aban Patel) flatly , tries bravely to play the loving wife inexorable path of situation comedy, refuses to be inspected, while Ms on one hand and foiK Jimmu ’s which can roughly be described as M^necfcshaw is so afraid of shat' ardour on the other. ; 2^ • follows : first part —«stab^hj|ig the tering her husband ’s ego, that she Eventually, ^of Courfe; the . in- situation, §econd part —exjaoding does not even tell him that she has evitablo happens, the Husband the situation, third p^—picking such an important job, let alone (Bur jor Patel) arrives oh the scene up the pieces. Accordingly, * persuade him to.come upTorifl? very much the He-man in white Maru Bakaliu was divided info ‘spection. To get over the crisis fljuipels^^ jmd Cricket bat. He is three parts, of which took place sin? passes an old admirer ’ puzzled at the opulent surround ­ in and around the honejunoon sflite linimy Wnglewala (Dinyar <5pn- ings In which his wife, whom he of Hotel Obairuz (notice pun). Ms fTactorJI,/ ‘‘call me Jimmu ’’, a mas- iiftagiaes,a humble typist, is accom- 3C the predictable jokes about Ahme- Babulal C. Parikh or B. C. ji (Tarak dabadis and their parsimonious Mehta) who, being a considerate ways.^ Yet these local ingredients type, has discovered that it is her _ " ’ wedding anniversary. B, C. ji has pathetic to the problem, suddenly come down all the way from Ahmedabad in the centre of his head, as h^r husband. At the same time a maid working in the hotel, who is SSTn- ___ ___________________________________ 1-1-^___ '_____ volunteers to do the sanae for Ms Nicholson. part —«statdiahi|ig ;ond part —expTod To get over the odsis fljBipels^^ jmd cricket bat. iiftagiaes ^a humble typist, is accom-i 4 .. * ? ¦?5 * . -S, ;• •i<* ¦ f «> » 1 *1^ ? »l I r- > > - ' ¦* j ¦J III iiiiiiiiin iiHiji I ij ii iiiiian ¦¦min- ever which were put in for mere phasis^^ift^4 ^o the ’ cOrifroa^ti^ ’ conyefiience which could have been bef^'i^' Jiteriiu' ahd^ W ’M^edc?; handled in a more subtlj manner, shaw B. C. ji was left on the fringes A voice over the hotel iritercom of the action wjth ndthir?g nlil^ to do. ' The women generally appeared fo be ovo ’acting, though here again in, a comedy of this kmd it could - perhaps not be pvoided. ' ‘The clothes bordered on the garish mid . at * the risk of sounding like * a prude moddt^ and his surprise drily bima to annoyance when the neon sigtidn red letters saying HOTEL QBAJRUZ slips right in front di A voice overhotel iritercom his wife ’s window m such .a (or example womd fre It is so pregnant, had to wean an outfit that it - »• ments, un- I I '¦i; K s The one thing the play was riot lacking In was actic^. J^^e wdftt ' up arid downJifts, e^h other round 1 bathroom, the b^eori^ ran down the corridors aiw the. * staircases with a nimbleness which was hard to believe in so rotund*^ ai|> The mechanics of the play ••—I|B on oiled wheels particu ­ larly W convey the suggestion that the lift had got stuck at one point and n little later had. gone berserk with Jimmu standing on top of it, howling dismally as it went up and . down. The set too was imagina- ; tively designed^ tot stage this bed- room grttmi pf^/a&d J^id^ disk­ ing quite ^entic, jcpvjded in- a W1 The set too was imagina- n^cessaiy, since he fiis nothing to inlpteSs very much except* by his do with the plot, i si^. Burjor Peftelj loclcmg ilac^^^ fti^^e circumstances, the acto« ...... ............................................................ ... . credit at least for keeping up the earning most of his laughs by get- frantic pace. They gave solid un ­ inspired 1 " — Mehta, as the Ahmedabadi gave a vp^ assured and reafistic port^ay^ earlier partS. As lhe ^rMrl^d ho^^^ and'^he Jsm- ting in and oiit of ridiculous look- performances. Tarak ing garmentSi Having * said this much one is mly 1^ tcvwondjer why a per? Burjor R^’s reputation Od? w^te ¦_ time with such ¦'> . numerable exits ttpd entries through which the Various .characters could chase .each ’othen, The Only' ‘iCfe^^dvanUgc cfcau ' ritepUi^e,. tlwt |t qan^lbel^^ 'W" .®rid the audience is . soon- , Iriain^ to get bqred starjug at tfip ' sume tfiing for pyer two aniTa half holds. ; ‘ There w^^ dptaiXs j'' .* ¦ " ¦Ji* -ihitA. which the Various .characters 7'^ < < .o > * f M 9’ .. ¦.. *¦ « 'sr .* • ' ; *. '» * - K 31¦ < 4 t ¦ ,<• ¦ ¦¦ '* ,.... . •- • .y - r stereotyped inanitieSi lhe ans^ef * As ifor her involvement in reli- they were supposed to have sen! could well be that he is only giv- gion, Pheroza notes, “I’m nOt anti- one wei^ng 20 pounds if they ing the audience w|^ it wants. He Zoroastrfan or pro-Zordastrian. wanted him to live but they sent is like a man who insists on serv- I believe in a God. I feel that you only 10 pounds, so they had to ing!ba|:ed beans out of a can even belong somewhere and that you make another replica. And he got when fresh vegetables are available, j " ' ’ " - - b^auae he knows the audience all religions just as much as I If Pheroza were ’to marry out wflj eat it no Jtnatter what he sives expect others to respect mine. ” of tjie community, she says, her them., .^e ,w6 to blame him for Thus while she often goes parents ‘‘would have a fit. They ’re doing this or is it the audience to the Fire temple to pray she be- not orthodox, they ’re liberal, jJjut which must demand a change of lieves ^>well in the Virgin Mary, th^ ’d’^tlu be upset about things diet?* and feels “po conflict ” in her be- like riiairriage. ” She feels that this W8® so despite the fact that her parents have “such a large cosmo ­ politan group of friends that some xuc, OU X -J — ,.r-------------—--------- people ask them, ‘Why do you She had ing a small shrine in a village near have so gion, Pheroza notes, “I’m ndt anti- - oj. I believe in a God. I feel that you only 10 pounds, so they had to are here for some reason. I reject well in the etod-. J, ; while she often goes parents ‘‘would have a fit. They ’re to the Fire temple to pray she be- not orthodox, they ’re liberal, ,;but and feels “no conflict ” in her be- li^e riiairriage. ” She feels that this Geeta Doctor “It^ just a faith I have and , maybe I’m just §ort of blindly fol- Qraroza (Continued from page 2^) lowing it. ” She remembers vivid- began to make friends: ’ her first exhibition at Chetna Art Gallery in 1968 and Gymroza was . . . - , conceived during tlie final year of exam and just before I did it I would upset them. But thev ’d al- her ’B.A. “I didn ’t expect to. but I heard about this place. J; thought low ine if I/eally wantiph^Phe- did w611 in the exam, so that made - .. . .. me want to do my M.A. afterwards. peoiriS got curious about me, so I ly an experience she had concem- ‘Why do you many non-^roastrian Madras Sailed Velankani: “I was friends? ’ Its mainly the thing very nervous about my Inter-Arts about conversion, 1 think, that exam and just before I did it I would upset them. al- about it and it got to be a real I'oza herself feels that she 1ms not __ ____________ ______________ ‘thing ’. Finally, I got through my thought about the subject enough .l it was a lot of bravado; now I plan exam with flying colors so I de- to do my B. Ed. in ’74.” Ba addi- mdcd I would definitely,go there. ” about marriage! ” she says. For tion, she teaches seventh graders Though she was disappointed in the mome«t, she plans to continue - -J—, r,-.---. the avarice of the priest the^, “painting on my own and working what impressed her was the on my,next exhibition. ” As for museum tikere, “filled with fantas ­ tic thingy sent by the people There was a replica of *3 litrie sort of platform for the Arts. ’ Parsi boy in silver--^pparent1y, Maiqala Padman^an to do my B. Ed. in ’74.” ^ addi- at Cathedral Schod, runs handi ­ craft classes for children and acts in plays. ^*I love, acting —if it wasn ’t for £ny painting, I would have joined the dmma school in Ttefhi, i like to live the part, get completely lri^lv«L ” ' about it and it got to be a reaj to discuss it. “I’Ve rid time to thii^ about marriage! ” she says. •'painting on my own and working on jny.next exhibition.' 99 Gywb2«> Pheroza wants it to **c*iaz»/*AA/4 ^ATill «*SeA- 1>a «%«** ¦> ‘‘succeed. It will rise, up to be mi whose wishes had bebn.granW, institution of high standing —a _____ _ __ ¦!?__ -nl fz\*» A !'’> ¦ 5 V « «>i With Complintehts •• i' of f 1 J* i M. MEHTA &; CO. iS-.- I ..] •¦ i . ¦ . ¦•. Sk' ¦ ¦ ¦ •. •' ¦ » s * CottoH Mercftismts '’¦4r' ’ e - *!> t •» ; ? t ;^ut ? .« «^'l 1. ¦ J* . V' •-. 't< .A r ¦ ' i (hihlishert' ''1^ 's^;4b< T IbtA' ** J ¦<1